this is what I have to deal with in the micro budget film world of Texas...

[splatterman]

I was hired to work on a micro budget slasher film that required me to make a fake head, ripped out throat and various other wound fx.  Originally I had sent them my resume and portfolio to work as an unpaid assistant.  I'll do unpaid work if it broadens my network and I can work under someone that can teach me, however this wasn't the case.  These idiots wanted me to assist them.  They have no idea how to do any of the effects and learned everything they know about film making from Robert Rodriguez's book, Rebel Without A Crew. 

This irritated me, but I was willing to work something out.  I quoted them $650 to $1000 for materials and work.  Then I found out how much it would cost to make a fake head and told them it would be more if they wanted something other than a doctored up styrofoam head.d  These are the emails that went between the filmmakers and myself.  I'd like some opinions here.  Am I a jackass and in the wrong or am I thinking correctly?  These guys don't even want to pay for gas and I'd have to drive 60  miles back and forth to where they're shooting.

Hi Jason,

Thanks a lot for your estimates.  Our goal is obviously to cut costs wherever possible without sacrificing quality, so we are going to whittle down the fx list and hire you for some -- but not all -- of the scenes. 

Here's a run through of what we will probably want to hire you for; please keep in mind that it is preliminary.  If you could give us a quote for the following, we'd much appreciate it:

2.  Stab marks on a woman's chest (bare skin, wet -- she is lifted out of a tub). 
3.  Smashed/beaten face.  Bleeding.  Immediately after being attacked.  Two (2) of these.   
12.  Neck torn open by dog, bleeding profusely.  Meat showing as well as blood coming out in substantial amounts. 

Because you may be curious, I'll let you know that we have found an artist and clay sculptor who will create the severed head for us.  Thanks for talking to your friend about that, though! 

Let me know if you have any questions.  If and when we agree on a price, we'll work out payment and get you a script. 

Thanks,
Daniel 
Jason Zentner   7:28 AM (6 hours ago)
I'm sorry, but I'm no longer interested in working on your project.  If this was a short film, I'd consider it, but you're asking quite a bit for basically nothing.  I'd suggest looking for a college student that is looking for experience.

Dan and Stew Doggett
   
1:06 PM (30 minutes ago)
      
to me
What do you mean we're asking for quite a bit for basically nothing?  We haven't even settled on a price yet.  We are waiting on a quote from you.  That's how this works.
Dan and Stew Doggett
   
1:18 PM (19 minutes ago)
      
to me
You know what, forget about it man.  We got quotes from three other artists and yours was the most outrageous.  The ridiculous prices coupled with an unprofessional presentation and your last rude email tell me there's no way in hell I want you on our set.  This is what I get for trying to help up-and-comers.
Jason Zentner
   
1:37 PM (0 minutes ago)
      
to Dan
You're actually the insulting one.  I gave you 3 quotes and you aren't satisfied with any of them.  You should be paying someone for what you want done.  It's insulting to me and every other fx artist out there that you expect us to do work for free and with substandard materials.  You weren't helping me at all by offering me a job on your film.  I'm working on two other projects that are actually paying me.  You get what you pay for.  You're no big loss to me.
               
   

[Lost in the Orient]

Quite often producers have a highly inflated view of themselves and their project(s).  You will find this even more so in States that have smaller indie film industries.  At the end of the day, they almost always take offense when you inform them that they should pay, or pay more.  I usually try to and stay cool with them, unless they get ugly about it.  Best you can really do.

[adom]

From the other side of the fence, if I tell an F/X artist what my budget is and they come back with a quote 3 times that amount all they've done is waste everyone's time.  The producers want to get the most money onto the screen.  The director wants to see his vision on the screen.  If these are the guy it becomes a problem.  Everybody on the cast and crew thinks they're irreplaceable.   Nobody is.

They should have been upfront about their budget so you could have said, "Ya, I can do that" or "No, I can't think of anything that would look good for less than twice that much."

[splatterman]

They never  told me what their budget was and never let me look at their script so that I could give an accurate assessment of what all the fx were.  All they did was waste my time.  These guys are the type of people that watched a bunch of crappy horror films and decided they could make one. I've paid my dues with those kinds of "filmmakers."

My recommendation to anyone that is at my level, or lower in the food chain, is that if they don't let you see the script, tell them you aren't interested.

 A new problem I've recently run into is people asking me to do fx for them, I give them a quote and they say that's what they were hoping for, then I find out they don't actually have any money for anything.  A month later they tell me that they can't get the funds for the film and they're sorry.  I had one guy get mad at me because I wouldn't commit to his film.  He told me the thought he could get the money by a certain time and he wanted me to wait.  I had another paying offer, so I told him he could wait until after I'm finished with that, or find someone else.  His exact words were, "If you don't believe in this project, you're welcome to leave."
I just hung up the phone.

[adom]

Had the same thing happen with a music video.  Quoted the guy a price for a script I ahd submitted that was a whole short story of a video with dancers and locations and everything.  He said fine.  Texts me two days later that he couldn't come up with the down payment.  I said fine, call me if he does.  He calls a week after that telling me he found someone to do it for 1/3 the price, but he'd rather work with me.  I asked if he was shooting the same script I had written on spec (which is mine, not his) because for 1/3 I couldn't see how it could be done.  He said, "Well no, they just want to film me singing and cut it together, but I want more than that."
I told him more costs more and directed him to Kickstarter.

[splatterman]

That's something that really irritates me.  With sites like kickstarter and indiegogo, there is no excuse for not having at least a small budget.  It seems that they want us to put forth maximum effort when they are barely trying.  Right now I'm production coordinator and make up fx artist for a film coming up in July. We're all busting our butts to get things together for our indiegogo page.  The key to making money on those sites is to continuously put up new stuff to show possible donators that you're working hard.  You get what you give.

[adom]

I'm back and forth on crowd funding.  Had so many things I donated to get made, but never saw the promised "perks", but on the other hand, I don't feel it's fair to the cast/crew to not try and raise whatever moneys you can.