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Poll

Is the figure in the Patterson footage...

a real bigfoot.
a man in an ape costume.

Author Topic: Bill Munns and the Patterson-Gimlin Film.  (Read 2943 times)

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kitakaze

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Bill Munns and the Patterson-Gimlin Film.
« on: April 24, 2011, 09:20:28 PM »
First of all, as this is my first post, greetings to everyone here at the Make-Up FX Forum. My name is Kitakaze, but please call me Kaze for short if you like or Kit as many people do. You guys have an amazing forum here which I'm very impressed with. I am not an FX artist, but rather a DJ/music producer by trade and also a skeptical writer and investigator with a focus on the subject of Bigfoot of all things. Like pretty much everyone here, I am guessing, I have had a love of monsters and scary movies since I was a child. Bigfoot and the Wolfman have always been my favourites.

I am currently working on a documentary project on the subject of Bigfoot which is more of a focus on the subculture of Bigfoot enthusiasts and a skeptical look at the most noted alleged evidence than a question of whether or not Bigfoot exists. Though I used to very strongly believe in the existence of Bigfoot when I was younger, through years of critical examination of the best claims of evidence I could find, I came to conclude that Bigfoot is only a social construct and not a real animal.

The reason I am here is to engage the FX community around the world and your collective experience to help examine a very specific claim regarding Bigfoot, the most famous one, the 1967 Patterson-Gimlin film of an alleged Bigfoot walking across a creekbed at Bluff Creek in Northern California. I have been investigating this film for years and have been able to make connections with many people connected to the film. In my documentary I plan to reveal final proof that the film was indeed a hoax by Roger Patterson, Bob Gimlin, Roger's brother-in-law Al DeAtley, and Bob Heironimus who wore the suit. The film will show that the PGF (Patterson-Gimlin Film) was a cash-grab planned primarily by Roger Patterson and Al DeAtley who I believe financed the hoax for the benefit of his paving company in Yakima and for Roger and his wife and three children (Roger had Hodgkin's lymphoma which he died from at 38 years of age in 1972).

Within the community of Bigfoot believers I am recognized as being essentially one of the main proponents of the film being a hoax. On the other side of the coin and the reason why I have come here to the Make-Up FX Forum is former MUFX artist Bill Munns. Bill Munns, along with Idaho State Universtity professor Dr. Jeffery Meldrum, is one of the main proponents of the film being of a real Bigfoot. Bill Munns is probably best known as a MUFX artist with his work on the films Return of the Living Dead, Swamp Thing, and Beast Master. Since 2008 Munns has come into the Bigfoot community as a proponent of the film's legitimacy and has since written at great length on the subject. Bill and I are on opposite sides of the coin and while I used to be excoriatingly critical of him, we have since come to be on friendly terms and have a mutual respect.

Bill has written what he calls the "Munns Report" which is an extensive examintaion of the film and it's subject in which Bill argues that the creature shown is not a man in a suit. Here is a link to Munns' report...

http://www.themunnsreport.com/

And here is a link to Munns' Creature Gallery...

http://www.billmunnscreaturegallery.com/bmcgsite_032.htm

And here is a link to Bill Munns appearing on National Geographic's American Paranormal TV show in which he argues for the film's authenticity (from 2:35)...

American Paranormal - Big Foot Part 4


My main purpose in coming to the forum is that I seek the experience of the FX community to examine the film and Munns' report on it and to share your opinions on both. In my documentary I will feature interviews wtih various MUFX and creature suit people such as John Vulich of Optic Nerve Studios and Philip Morris of Morris Costumes (not an FX man) who sold Patterson a gorilla suit in August 1967 that may have been modified and used in the film. I also hope to be able to interview other MUFX artists who have examined the film and concluded it to be fake such as Rick Baker. The late great Stan Winston and and also Verne Langdon examined the film and found it to be an obvious hoax. Bill argues that his professional opinion outweighs that of his collegues such as Baker because they have not been able to examine the film as thoroughly as he has and also because no MUFX people he has corresponded with have returned his mails. If anyone has suggestion for MUFX people for me to talk to on and off the record regarding the film, by all means please either post the suggestions here or PM them to me.

I very much look forward to reading everyone's thoughts on the PGF and opinions on Bill Munns' arguments about the film from a MUFX artist stand point.

Here is a link to the PGF on Youtube for anyone who might not have seen it...

Roger Patterson Bigfoot Footage Small | Large


Steve-O

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Re: Bill Munns and the Patterson-Gimlin Film.
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2011, 10:43:56 PM »
Welcome to the forum Kaze.  This is a subject which I'm sure has popped up in workshop banter all over the globe at some point.  This along with other video clips which have been bought to question in the past, whether a shakey video of bigfoot or an alien from a UFO crash being autopsied, one thing is clear, this stuff can be easily made with a reasonable budget and a competant technician.

I think it's important to look at the visual evidence as opposed to considering the arguments.

When I watch it, I see a man with no acting experience, in an ape suit.

We've seen monkey's in films before, why is this one any different?

I've added a basic poll to this topic and will be interested to see the comments added below.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2011, 10:47:45 PM by Steve-O »
"I ain't got no beef with east coast, I think it's just being hyped up." Ice T (musician)

Lost in the Orient

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Re: Bill Munns and the Patterson-Gimlin Film.
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2011, 02:15:29 AM »
Welcome Kaze, glad to have you here.  Look forward to seeing some of your work.

Cheers,  Mike 8)
The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

kitakaze

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Re: Bill Munns and the Patterson-Gimlin Film.
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2011, 09:13:20 AM »
I think it's important to look at the visual evidence as opposed to considering the arguments.

When I watch it, I see a man with no acting experience, in an ape suit.


I agree, Steve. the things that really make the suit obvious to me are the diaper butt, the hairy scud breasts jutting out from the lower torso, the weird horizontal subducting line across the middle of the right thigh, the slipper feet, the poorly fitting arms which the actor's own arms show through clearly, and the very human proportions.



What specifics on the subject indicate a hoax for you, Steve?

Steve-O

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Re: Bill Munns and the Patterson-Gimlin Film.
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2011, 07:08:04 PM »
I couldn't specify anything to indicate that it's a hoax without someone, somewhere arguing the case that it's real so I'm not going down that road as it's no doubt a road travelled many times over.  At the same time there is nothing anyone can say to make me believe that this is an Ape like creature living in a forest.  Each to their own, it's a nice idea to imagine such things like this exsist as it fuels the imagination of creature FX artist into creating similar monstrosities.


"I ain't got no beef with east coast, I think it's just being hyped up." Ice T (musician)

forbig

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Re: Bill Munns and the Patterson-Gimlin Film.
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2011, 03:24:52 AM »
Hello everyone, hello Kaze my old friend. I voted real because I believe this may have been a big conspiracy against Roger Patterson. Plus there's all that other evidence out there along with witnesses.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2011, 03:26:57 AM by forbig »

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